Episode 170 - Magazines, CSS, Rants
Posted on 06 August, 2009 at 18:23 PM
There are already 19 Comments
About the Show
In this weeks From the Couch you get a very clear view of our new theme called 'Press'. David screencasts the entire CSS & HTML conversion of the Gallery page.
Marc then takes you on a ride with his latest rant about clients asking for a lot but not giving back, it get's personal but that's how we roll.
Finally while chilling with Marc, David spots a magazine layout that could easily be transferred to the web sphere.
That's like 3 episodes in one, talk about awesomeness.
On a side note:
Some of you may have realised a slight change to the sites layout.
- We now have a banner advert above our videos (it's a test, we may remove it if we see bad results).
- On the home page we now list 'Popular Posts' according to the comments they receive
- We also feature the latest written blog post from our site 'We Are not Freelancers'
Let us know what you think of the changes and if you find them useful! So far the new format of the show has received a positive response which makes us super excited :)
Related Shows
- (1) Episode 189 - Using Inspiration Effectively
- (5) Episode 187 - Design with the Lights On
- (8) Episode 186 - Apples and Oranges
- (2) Episode 185 - Design like a Dictator
- (25) Episode 184 - Murdoch vs. Google
User Comments
Rachel Bastarache 06 Aug, 2009 19:14:00 PM
As always, a great episode to watch. The screencast was worth the wait! I hope that makes the suffering through the rendering worthwhile for you.
I couldn't agree with @Marc on the rant. :) I work predominately with video production, and people are frequently asking me, "Can't you just throw something together so it won't be expensive?" Ahem. It's a service and product. You're rant was right on the money!
The layout idea was great! Thanks for the encouragement to "keep the eyes open!"
Marc Perel 06 Aug, 2009 19:20:42 PM
@Kimberly - We've had the same with regards to pausing a site until payment was made. It didn't go down well, but in the end we got our money. Now days we make sure that it states clearly on the invoice that payment must be received in a timely manner as well as having a contract for clients to sign before we commence work on their sites.
The tracks are by an awesome artist called RJD2 -en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RJD2
@Rachel - Glad you enjoyed the show and the rant ;)
Sanne Terpstra 06 Aug, 2009 19:53:25 PM
Great episode!
But, I think you shouldn't do the screencast accelerated.. I can't really see what you're doing in the code, so maybe you should give some explanation.
Or write the code, then start screencasting and analyze the code in the video with explanation. Like the screencasting shows by Jeffrey on nettuts.com
The rant was really good btw! :)
meredith 06 Aug, 2009 20:00:37 PM
I always love your guys' rants. Seems to me there are always two types of client reactions to quotes/payment/cost. One complains, is shocked, annoyed, and possibly offended. The other is just like, "Yah ok whatever, I just need to get it done."
It's no different than any other service industry like car repair, roofing, plumbing, electrical work. These folks do the work and get paid, if not, they take the client to work or put a lien on their property (in the US, and if applicable).
I would like to hope that eventually, all the world and non-web people will, at some point, understand the industry and the time/effort/cost/value associated with it. But honestly, I think it will be a while.
David Perel 06 Aug, 2009 20:45:18 PM
Wow, great response already. Puts a smile on my face :)
Regarding the high speed screencast, I am just giving it a go for now. I agree that its not ideal for coding but it will be cool when we post a highspeed cast of us doing a site design. Stay tuned for that ;)
Brad C 06 Aug, 2009 21:41:38 PM
Marc - The moment you hand a quote over to a potential client is the same moment that person realizes that quality comes with at a cost. It's the moment they realize that starting a business online is not free. It's the moment they realize that they will get what they pay for. And it's the moment they first realize that the website they want to build might not be successful.
It's the client that realizes those things and gets mad about them that will come back in a year or two when they realize that their cheap site doesn't work.
Marc Perel 06 Aug, 2009 21:56:00 PM
@BradC - Spot on mate, when they come back after a bad experience with another firm it's when they realize they may have been penny wise, pound foolish (I think goes the saying?)
That said, if they go to another firm and have a good experience, that's also great, it's the fact that they'll get offended by a quote. It doesn't mean they have to accept it or anything.
Sam 07 Aug, 2009 00:31:58 AM
With your WAMP server and Apache installations side by side, did you check the obvious and make sure they're running on different ports? Make sure IIS isn't running as well.
Love the screencast too. Reminds me of when I do sites, a lot of alt-tabbing & tweaking. Actually, dual screens help with the alt-tabbing, but still a lot of refreshing then tweaking.
Simon North 07 Aug, 2009 01:04:03 AM
Great episode as always.
I have a few clients that need to be pushed to pay but they tend to be regulars so I can give them a little extra time but its never been over 30 days, 4 months is just ridiculous.
-Simon
Lisa 07 Aug, 2009 12:00:44 PM
Hey guys! Couldnt agree with you more. In my opinion - people as much as they can get with having to pay as little as possible. And the old mantras are true - anything worth having is worth paying for - and you get what you pay for. If I had money for every time someone justified not paying me a fair market rate as an experienced design professional by saying - 'well so-and so could do this so much cheaper' I could retire having been working these last 24 years. I always say fine - you are welcome to take your business elsewhere and good luck to you with the quality of the work. I dont host so can't block a website - but I do print design and Im a writer also. For any project clients have to pay me 50% up front and wont get the final product until the other 50% is paid and they have 30 days upon completion to do that; it's in the contract and non-negotiable. That's a standard industry practice back home in the States and Im sticking with it. Anyone who has a problem with that is not a client I want to have - just means more hassles long term. There is this perception that anyone can do what we do - probably because so many non-pros have flooded the market and some people just have no idea what good quality is....Stick to your guns. You definately have the right attitude about this.
josh 08 Aug, 2009 11:06:18 AM
out of curiosity, how do you handle the signing of contracts... do you fax them or do some kind of electronic signature? I have been attaching them to an e-mail and having the client respond with a message agreeing to the attached terms. I don't really know how much legal weight this method holds though.
Marc Perel 08 Aug, 2009 19:22:09 PM
@Julie - That artist is called RJD2 -en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RJD2 Check it out.
Rob MacKay 10 Aug, 2009 10:39:06 AM
Hey guys :)
you are very right in your rant, its crazy - I really don't get how people ever made the connection to free... maybe there is too much free stuff in the world.
Owen Anderson 10 Aug, 2009 17:45:46 PM
I've know this site for about 6 months I guess but to be honest never really checked back to often. Since the new format I've kept checking back for new videos. Love what you're doing now, it's different to everyone else's blog out there.
I really like the music you're putting in the background of these videos. If possible I would love the song title / artist for the videos, but maybe that's asking for to much =)
Does anyone know where I can subscribe to that magazine or if they have a website?
Tom 15 Aug, 2009 18:14:04 PM
Wow, the look of the show has gotten great! Love the fact that the camera's getting closer; it feels much more intimate.
And the lighting is absolutely gorgeous when you tape at dusk.
The insight about being inspired by magazines was great, as was the rant.
(I found the screencast of the code slightly frustrating, because it was hard to read. I'm a newbie, so maybe those who know what they're doing would find it easier to follow along. Overall, though, I wonder if screencasts wouldn't work better for wireframing/design than code?)
But great show!
Colin 01 Sep, 2009 15:36:34 PM
Hey Guy's. I just found your site today, and have been catching up with some of the older episodes, you day some amazing work.
With regards to clients not paying, or demanding discounts. There is a very simply way to deal with this; present your quote along with a page of terms and conditions. I do this with all my clients since I had a problem with a few bad ones in the past.
In my terms and conditions, I state exactly how the payment is to be paid, and it's usually something like this:
30% deposit on the sign-off of a specification - this is to ensure that the project doesn't expand on scope - you can always refer them back to the agreed specification document.
30% to be paid on the sign-off of the design comps (I limit the number of revisions and designs up front so it focuses their mind earlier in the project).
Only when that second payment is received to I actually start coding. Any changins during this process incur a fee based on an hourly rate as stated in the specification and usually after the original specification is completed.
When the job is finished according to the original specification, the website does not go live until the receipt of the final 40% - this ensures that you get quick payment.
I hope that helps! Keep up the great work, you have a new follower in me.
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Kimberly Beaven 06 Aug, 2009 19:02:53 PM
Hey Guys Marc OMG could not agree with you more. That is exactly how I feel I mean if you went to a restaurant you have to pay before you leave the building so why is it that people get bent out of shape when you actually ask them to pay for something you create/produce? I had a client that was 4 months overdue and yelled when I said I was going to take their site down until the account was settled. It is the real world and although it is difficult to be tough, you are running a business and should be valued. I now have another person who handles the account and dealing with that end because as an artist we wear our hearts on our sleeves and get weak when push comes to shove. Having another person than the creator deal with it, allows it to be handled professionally and objectively.
David loved the code voyeurism pretty slick.
BTW Loved the music during the coding _ may I aks who were the artists?